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Interview with Hezbollah Leader Oct 20 2000, ABCNEWS’ Ted Koppel interviewed Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah. The following excerpts were not shown in the Nightline broadcast. TED KOPPEL: And joining us now, from Lebanon, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, Secretary-General of Hezbollah, or Party of God. SHEIK HASSAN NASRALLAH , it is not very often that you, or a leader of Hezbollah talks to an American journalist, and I’m just wondering if we could begin by your telling me why you have agreed to this interview. NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: It’s not the first time that I speak with American journalists. I’ve had meetings with many different newspapers and stations, and I’ve ha—never had a problem with meeting with American journalists. Therefore, there’s nothing new here. But this is a good opportunity to talk with you. KOPPEL: My question, though, was I understand that you have spoken to American journalists before. I just wondered if the timing, right now, means that you have a particular agenda? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: Of course conditions in the region are very important at this period of time, and very sensitive, and I’m ready to discuss with you any subject. KOPPEL: Where do you stand on the, on the existence of the State of Israel? I’ve read some of your speeches and it looks to me as though you believe Israel has no rights in the region. Is that correct? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: I would like to say where was Israel before the year 1948? During the First World War and Second World War? After World War I, there was Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Egypt. There were two mandates, one British, one French. There was no state called Israel. There was something called Palestine and the Palestinian people. Among them, there were Muslims, Christians, and Jews living together. But then violent organizations came, bringing with them many large groups of people from various parts of the world to Palestine. They occupied the land of others, and displaced the Palestinian people, committed massacres in Veljasene [?], and other places. Therefore this state was established on the basis of occupation. If you want my opinion, I say that this is a state based on occupation, that has usurped the rights of others. KOPPEL: My question to you, though, was somewhat simpler. My question was do you believe that the State of Israel, in any form, whether in reduced size, or otherwise, has the right to exist? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: I believe that Palestine is an occupied land from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and this is the right of the entire Palestinian people, this land. On this land, Muslims, Christians and Jews can coexist together, as they have—as they had for the—for hundreds of years in the framework of a democratic state. However, there is no legal and legitimate state called Israel. KOPPEL: So as far as Hezbollah is concerned, the only thing to be negotiated, then, would be the dismantling of the State of Israel. Is that correct? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: We don’t want to talk about dismantling the state. We want to talk about—we prefer to talk about returning the land to people whose right it is— KOPPEL: I understand— NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: —and it is a land on, on which many people can live. KOPPEL: We’re not talking at the moment about who was allowed to live where. The State of Israel has existed, now, for 52 years and my question is whether Hezbollah will be satisfied with anything less than the dismantling of the State of Israel? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: What is clear that I—is that I don’t believe in the State of Israel as a legal state because it was founded on occupation. Would you allow a people to come from somewhere else and occupy a part of the United States, and set up an independent state, and, after 50 years, you would not be able to stay on this land? The initial point is is it permissible for them to come and occupy this land or not? What is illegal cannot be legal just because it has been 50 years. Occupation remains occupation, even if it’s for hundreds of years. KOPPEL: You raised a question of the United States. I don’t want to debate history with you, but in point of fact there are many parts of this country that did belong to other nations and other people, and this land was established on those territories anyway, and has survived for several hundreds of years now. So if you are pragmatic, I would suggest to you that perhaps the State of Israel is there for good now. NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: I don’t accept this result. Israel remains a foreign body in this large area, and it always proved that it is unable to coexist with this environment, because the, the scope of the massacres that it has committed does not permit it to coexist. Over the last 50 years, the State of Israel has proved that it is an expansionist state, and wants to dominate the region, and it is not convinced of what it has already. It always intervenes in the affairs of the other countries in this region, as it happened in Lebanon. I don’t believe that—ever since the first day, I don’t believe that Israel is a candidate for peace in this region. KOPPEL: If I were an Israeli leader, listening to you right now, I would say Nasrallah , you are asking me to talk about negotiating my own surrender, my own suicide. Why should I even continue talking with you, or anybody else representing the Palestinians, if, ultimately, all you want to do is destroy me? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: It is natural for any Israeli leader to think in this manner because anyone who rules the lands of occupation will think this way. The problem is we disagree about the origin. Is this occupied land or not? In man—in the history of mankind, this has happened many times, and occupation leaders hang on to the land that they’re occupying. People fight to liberate their land. But in the end, the people’s will is what achieves victory. KOPPEL: Give me a sense, if you can, of what you think will happen over the course of the next few months, and what would happen if, for example, Arafat and the Israelis were to reach a permanent settlement. Would that be acceptable to you? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: It depends on the kind of agreement. Even those who supported Oslo are now frustrated with this. I tell you, frankly, the current intifada is not that of Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It’s the intifada of Fatah. Along with the Islamic Jihad, Hamas, and the rest of the Palestinian people. The ones who were negotiating are now on the front line of this intifada, because they found that the negotiations didn’t give them the minimum of their rights. You can look at the West Bank. Cities are like prisons. They can be closed quickly by the Israeli forces, and everything stops in these cities. This is the result of Oslo. So what Arafat and the Israelis agree on can affect the course of events. The Sharm el-Sheikh summit did not produce an agreement. It was a failure. They brought them together just to tell them—stop fighting. The Palestinian must stop throwing stones, and the Israelis must stop firing rockets. And in the view of the Sharm el-Sheikh summit, rockets are equal to stones. However, they did not treat the reasons that led to this condition. I believe that the conditions in the Palestinian territories are alway capable of explosion because the same circumstances are there. KOPPEL: Do you think that the will of the people in Saudi Arabia, in Egypt, in Jordan, for example, may cause their leadership to change their minds, or that possibly the leadership could even be overthrown? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: I can’t speak exactly about that issue but I can speak about the anger of the people, where—we don’t know where this anger is going to lead. KOPPEL: Where would you like it to lead? NASRALLAH [through interpreter]: Actually, we’re not talking about war. What we’d like to say is that the occupiers go back to where they came from, for example, the Falashas of Ethiopia can go back to where they came from. They only, they only came to Palestine a few years ago. People of Palestine are expelled. They are in Lebanon, they are in Jordan, they are in Syria. Meanwhile, they are looking for the Falashas of Ethiopia to bring to Palestine. The ones who came from Russia can go back to Russia, in such a manner. If you return the land to the people, there will be no war, or wars. You might tell me that the matter is not this simple, and I know this. But this region cannot accept occupation, and the people of this region are ancient peoples, and have historic, historical ties and ancient civilizations. And you cannot seize their holy, what they hold holy, this easily. I think the people who occupy Palestine should gain from the example of the Crusaders who also came here. Palestine was subject to the wars of the Crusades for 200 years, and not just fifty. In the end, no foreign body can continue and survive here. So we can end this without bloodshed from either side. Nightline examines the impact of Hezbollah. RealVideo |
